Wednesday, November 22, 2017

Values of basic class features (Part 2)

Part 1 is here.

So far, I've actually been simplifying how 5E D&D assigns features to classes for my own purposes. After all, in 5E and traditional D&D the role of the Rogue is the "skill monkey", and  these systems assign value to extra skills and expertise. If we look at all the 5E classes as a whole rather than one or two features, we could roughly summarize their features as follows:



ClassFigtrPaldnRangrBarbMonkSorcrWizrdClercDruidRogueBardWarlk
HD2223111111
Caster2210105555
Armour3322222111
Weapons2222111111
Skills121
Tools1111
Martial Ability3113323
Domain/pact boon1
Expertise22
Total Value10101010810101010101211



Well, that's nice for a bird's eye view but doesn't really help us so much since I've decided to separate the value of skills and expertise from the other class features. I just figured folks will be interested to see the work I put into looking at the various classes as a whole.

Yes, the Monk is that bad and the Bard is that good. :p


--------

Let's put that bird's eye view aside and go back to the Feature Point (FP) system we were designing in Part 1. Our target is to figure out the value 5E places on Sneak Attack. Sneak Attack gives an extra 1d6 damage upon meeting the conditions, which is an average of 3.5 damage. Seeing as how every party should have a warrior who will stand next to an enemy, the conditions for sneak attack really are not difficult to meet. So sneak attack's value should be no less than 3FP.

If we apply the same process as we did in Part 1 to the Rogue, we'll see that the Rogue gets simple weapon + light armor + d8 hit dice + expertise + 2 extra skills + sneak attack (we'll regard Thieves’ Cant as fluff with no FP value). At least we know the value of the first three: 1+1+1=3, but we don't have a value for expertise + 2 extra skills + sneak attack. Somehow those add up to about 9 FP in our system. Expertise should have at least the same value as the 2 extra skill points if not more since expertise gives double proficiency bonus in two skills.

So it could be:
a) Expertise = 3, 2 skills =3, sneak attack =3
b) Expertise = 2, 2 skills = 2, sneak attack = 5
c) Expertise = 3, 2 skills =2, sneak attack =4
d) Expertise =1, 2 skills =1, sneak attack = 7 (highly doubtful)

So according to our weightage system, 5E assigns a value of about 3 to 5 FP for sneak attack. I'm leaning towards 3 or 4 FP. In our system, it's likely we need to give the rogue-ish character concepts a bit of a hand since we aren't assigning extra skills/expertise as a class feature. If we bump up sneak attack from d6 to d8, we should similarly bump up it's cost to 4 to 6 FP (I'm leaning towards 4 to 5).

---

Notice I keep saying how 5E assigns value to various features, not how a classless system should do so? Our estimate on how 5E assigns values to various class features is a good place to start, but we can fiddle with the numbers to better suit our system. We could for example decide to assign a value of 8 or 10 to wizard spellcasting instead for 9 because we really really want an even number. Why do we want an even number? For one, a classless system really benefits from having half wizard spell-casting progression paths. For example, the Warlock spell progression. There are a lot of folks who'll want to build a character with limited access to wizard spells, so to accommodate them there should be limited wizard spell-casting options. Half of 10 is 5.

Also, we have to consider what happens when the PC reaches level 2.

-----

Let's look at what the fighter gets at level 2 in 5E. From his class features he gets 6 more hit points and action surge. The wizard gets 4 more hit points, one more level 1 wizard spell slot, and arcane tradition. So does that mean 2 more hit points and action surge is equal in value to an extra spell slot and arcane tradition? Not really. The fighter is in fact investing towards his extra attack which comes online at level 5, 11 and 20.

Taking 5E's level by level progression system really doesn't work for a classless system. To understand 5th edition's level progression, we really need to look at 3rd edition which introduced the concept of taking an individual level of a class as a form of multi-classing. Back in 3rd edition, every level of Fighter/Paladin/Ranger/Barbarian contributed to a +1 bonus to attack (called a base attack bonus). Once you hit +6 base attack bonus, you got an extra attack at +1 base attack bonus. This gave made every level of these warrior classes more meaningful, so players had reason to invest in pure warrior classes.

5E however did away with the base attack bonus system due to the principle of bounded accuracy. Quite a brilliant bit of design there, IMO. Instead, players need to invest in levels of a specific warrior class in order to get those much coveted extra attacks, which instead hit for full damage. Extra attacks from different warrior class in 5E (fighter/paladin, ranger, barbarian) do NOT stack with each other.

That doesn't really work for a classless system though, because there isn't a class to invest levels in. We're using a Feature Points system to buy features, so we want warrior classes to have something to invest their feature points in every level rather than something they only get after 5 levels. Warriors such as the fighter need to improve their damage output as they level up, at least eventually.

If we want to stick to the principle of bounded accuracy (We should. It's a good principle), there are not many options. Every level, warriors can invest their FP in increased damage with their weapons. In order to maintain the value of martial weapons vs simple weapons, how much FP they can invest and how much damage bonuses they can get should depend on their weapon proficiency.

And so we could use something which looks like this:


FeatureFP costRequirementBenefit
Martial weapon proficiency2-Proficiency in martial weapons
Martial weapon proficiency 22char level 2Damage + 2 (+3 for twohanded)
Martial weapon proficiency 32char level 3Damage + 2 (+3 for twohanded)
Martial weapon proficiency 42char level 4Damage + 2 (+3 for twohanded)
Martial weapon proficiency 52char level 52x Damage dice, 1 Cleave per round
Martial weapon proficiency 62char level 6Damage + 2 (+3 for twohanded)
Martial weapon proficiency 72char level 7Damage + 2 (+3 for twohanded)
Martial weapon proficiency 82char level 8Damage + 2 (+3 for twohanded)
Martial weapon proficiency 92char level 9Damage + 2 (+3 for twohanded)
Martial weapon proficiency 102char level 103x Damage dice, 2 Cleaves per round
Martial weapon proficiency 112char level 11Damage + 2 (+3 for twohanded)
Martial weapon proficiency 122char level 12Damage + 2 (+3 for twohanded)
Martial weapon proficiency 132char level 13Damage + 2 (+3 for twohanded)
Martial weapon proficiency 142char level 14Damage + 2 (+3 for twohanded)
Martial weapon proficiency 152char level 154x Damage dice, 3 Cleaves per round
Martial weapon proficiency 162char level 16Damage + 2 (+3 for twohanded)
Martial weapon proficiency 172char level 17Damage + 2 (+3 for twohanded)
Martial weapon proficiency 182char level 18Damage + 2 (+3 for twohanded)
Martial weapon proficiency 192char level 19Damage + 2 (+3 for twohanded)
Martial weapon proficiency 202char level 205x Damage dice, no cleave limit

And for simple weapons:


NameFP costRequirementBenefit
Simple weapon proficiency1-Proficiency in simple weapons
Simple weapon proficiency 21char level 2Damage + 1 (+2 for twohanded)
Simple weapon proficiency 31char level 3Damage + 1 (+2 for twohanded)
Simple weapon proficiency 41char level 4Damage + 1 (+2 for twohanded)
Simple weapon proficiency 51char level 52x Damage dice, 1 Cleave per round
Simple weapon proficiency 61char level 6Damage + 1 (+2 for twohanded)
Simple weapon proficiency 71char level 7Damage + 1 (+2 for twohanded)
Simple weapon proficiency 81char level 8Damage + 1 (+2 for twohanded)
Simple weapon proficiency 91char level 9Damage + 1 (+2 for twohanded)
Simple weapon proficiency 101char level 103x Damage dice
Simple weapon proficiency 111char level 11Damage + 1 (+2 for twohanded)
Simple weapon proficiency 121char level 12Damage + 1 (+2 for twohanded)
Simple weapon proficiency 131char level 13Damage + 1 (+2 for twohanded)
Simple weapon proficiency 141char level 14Damage + 1 (+2 for twohanded)
Simple weapon proficiency 151char level 154x Damage dice
Simple weapon proficiency 161char level 16Damage + 1 (+2 for twohanded)
Simple weapon proficiency 171char level 17Damage + 1 (+2 for twohanded)
Simple weapon proficiency 181char level 18Damage + 1 (+2 for twohanded)
Simple weapon proficiency 191char level 19Damage + 1 (+2 for twohanded)
Simple weapon proficiency 201char level 205x Damage dice

Phew. But we're not nearly done! We need to calculate how much FP the fighter uses every level. The fighter now gets 2 more hit points than the lowly wizard every level, so that's 2 FP. He invests in Martial Weapon proficiency for the damage bonus every level, so that's another 2 FP. We want to have some additional FP for the Fighter to invest in other fun features. Say another 2 FP. Altogether a PC should gain 6FP every level.

But the wizard's spell progression costs 8 to 10 FP? Well, no it doesn't after level 1. Think about it. At level 1, the wizard spends 8 to 10 FP to get access to wizard spells and gains 2 level 1 spell slots. At level 2, the wizard the wizard invests into wizard spellcasting and gets 1 more spell slot. Should 1 more level 1 spell slot cost the same amount of FP as 2 level 1 spell slots at level 1? Players will correctly value it at half the amount of FP. If we value wizard spell progression at level 1 as 8FP and 4FP every level thereafter, it fits into our model quite well since we want to have a bit left over for fun bonus features. (6FP per level - 4FP leaves 2 FP per level)

And so:



NameFP costRequirementBenefit
Wizard spell-casting 18-(see Full caster spell progression table)
Wizard spell-casting 24char level 2"
Wizard spell-casting 34char level 3"
Wizard spell-casting 44char level 4"
Wizard spell-casting 54char level 5"

And so on so forth.

No comments:

Post a Comment